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Advise on power saving products


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#1 Gaz

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Posted 05 November 2002 - 09:30 AM

I'm currently considering implementing energy or power saving products to cut down on my electricy bills.

I have 7 freezers. There are two companies that had approached me, with both utilizing different technology.

As I really know nuts about electrical engineering, I would appreciate it if someone can help me on this matter.

One of the companies that approached me produces their products locally. They created this technology called 'CAP BANK' and the product is attached to the main board. Whatever power is needed is clamped & absorbed by this cap bank and then distributed to the respected machinery (freezer motor, stand alone refrigerator etc). The units are attached to the MAIN BOARD.

Apparently it can save a minimum of 15% off my bills, besides prolonging machineries life span.

The second company is a MNC. Their products are named SAVA WATT, which I believed is from the UK. Apparently, they utilise the solid state technology. Their units are attached to the motors.

They also mentioned that it can save me 15% plus equipment maintenance etc.

Going by price & ROI, the former would be the obvious choice. It is just that I would know which one is more reliable.

Anyone can help?

#2 marke

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Posted 05 November 2002 - 09:42 AM

Hello Gaz

I am guessing here, but I suspect that your first option is for power factor correction. If I am correct, then this will not reduce KW consumption, or slow down your meter, neither will it alter the life expectancy of your equipment. It will however reduce a poor power factor and reduce any surchage that you may have for this. The method of charging for a poor power factor varies considerably, but coomonly there can be either a Power factor surcharge or penalty, or a KVA maximum demand penalty. If you have such a surcharge, then power factor correction can help to reduce your power bill by reducing the surcharge. If you pay for KWHrs only, you will not benefit from adding power factor correction.
- There is a page on this site on power factor correction.
The second option sounds like the good old NASA type energy saver which will reduce the losses in the motor when it is operating inefficiently. (Essentially, the losses are highest on small motors and at no load). There is a paper on these devices on this site also. From my experience, I would not expect a saving on freezers, but you could try it and see. Don't be convinced by test results on other equipment, you need to do tests on your plant and you need to see the disk on a KWHr meter slow down.

Best regards,

#3 Gaz

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Posted 05 November 2002 - 10:02 AM

Marke,

Thanks, I appreciate the advice.

I've actually tested, and know that my OUTDATED machines are causing huge wastage. The agent actually told me beforehand that his intention is to rise the power factor to around .92-.95 from the current value of .78-.8.

The 2nd option agent even told me that the first option only plays with my power factor, will not decrease volume, plus will LOWER the VOLTAGE.

Both sides are telling me that theirs work better and others don't. Confused, I am.

It's just that I'm worried about long term investment. I don't knwo which one will give me a better value for money.





[Edited on 5/11/02 by Gaz]

#4 marke

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Posted 05 November 2002 - 05:51 PM

Hello Gaz

The problem that you have is that the "system" may be operating inefficiently, but that does not mean that the motors are operating inefficiently. There is a commonly held myth that motor draw their rated power, irrespective of the load on them. Based on this premise, lots of promises are made. The truth is, that induction motors tend to be quite efficient, particularly the larger ones. They operate at a high efficiency down to quite a low load. I would suggest that with a refridgeration compressor, the motor will be operating at a high efficiency under all conditions of the compressor and so there is little to be gained by trying to increase the operating efficiency of the motor.
The NASA principle promoted originally by Frank Nola was to reduce the voltage applied to the motor when the efficiency of that motor dropped, and thereby improve it's efficiency. The best savings are made at zero load, and reduce from there. Typically, by the time an induction motor is operating at 30% load, the efficiency is well up and there is litttle or no savings to be made. A small single phase motor will show better results to a higher loading however.
Power factor correction, while not reducing the KWHr, will give a payback, but only if you are currently paying a penalty for a low power factor. Check you power bill and see if you are charged for KWHrs (or units) only, of if ther is an additional surcharge for poor power factor or KVA demand. If you pay for KWHrs only, then you will get no payback for power factor correction.
Best regards,

#5 Gaz

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Posted 06 November 2002 - 03:35 PM

Marke,

Thanks for the help.

Since posting here, I found myself beginning to gain interest. Very very interesting industry indeed.

To my surprise or maybe not, another two companies contacted me today.

I thought maybe you would be interested, as both of them have websites. Care to evaluate?

Electroflow - http://www.electroflow.com/

RRA - http://www.kwhsavings.com/index.html

#6 schow

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Posted 18 July 2003 - 04:24 AM

Hi Gaz,

I am very interested in your topic since I am facing similar situation here.

Please tell me which technology worked better after you have done the test you mentioned before.

Thanks!!!

#7 schow

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 03:47 PM

Dear all,

Can anybody out there, who had tried out the both technolgies mentioned by Gaz (or any one), tell me which one of them works? or they are both working??

I faced similar situation as Gaz and am here to seek advice.

Cheers!;d;

#8 marke

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 08:24 PM

Hello schow

This question has been asked many times by many people on a number of different forums and to date, the lack of positive responses does not indicate a high success rate.
There are always claims and counter claims, but very few genuine success stories. The silence is deafening!
If there were genuine advantages in these schemes, I am sure that we would know about it by now.

Best regards,

#9 Guest__*

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 08:05 PM

Dear all,

I am a consultant in enrgy audit and in last 3 months investigated all products as mentioned here.I am going to give a brief summary of my findings as I had some bad experiences after investing in few.In brief,dont invest just by claims.For domestic application ,practically only conventional means likethemal insulation etc still remain the best options for enegy savings.
For industrial applications you need to obtain a lot of data before evaluating any saving but very few may give desired return on investment
Qureshi

#10 Guest__*

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 08:41 PM

dear gaz,
can you please give website address of cap bank

#11 Mikie

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 04:26 AM

Hi Gaz,

What was your ultimate solution? Did you choose from one of your four solutions or did you do something else? Thanks!

Michael

#12 marke

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Posted 26 December 2008 - 07:53 PM

Hello Mikie

The original post was dated 2002, so I dare say things have moved on a lot since then!!

I would strongly recommend looking at energy saving solutions rather than energy saving products.
Energy is usually saved by changing the operation, rather than fitting a magic box.

Best regards,
Mark.




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