So I was hoping that someone could help me out. I was recently contacted about a product called ortronic. it claims to capture reactive energy from the load and store it in a battery bank. The bank charges in three hours at which point a timing switch disconnects the grid from your property. the bank lasts for the remaining 21 hours after which the grid connection resumes. they claim that by using this technique energy savings of 70% can be achieved. im skeptical to say the least.

Hello starfish

Yet another "too good to be true" claim by the sound of things.
Firstly, you can not just create energy, so if the scheme is to recover "reactive" energy and store that for later usage, then that implies that there is true power in the reactive energy and that has come through the meter and been paid for.

The reactive energy actually can not do any work, it does not have any KW content, so the description seems unreasonable to me.

Additionally, the batteries are going to either have to store AC voltage (not possible) or use inverter technology to convert AC to DC and back again.

There is information on this technology at http://www.ortronic.es/ENGLISH/tecnologia_ortronic.html and reading through this, I am more than sceptical.
I like the suggestion that if you have an AC voltage applied to an inductive load, you will have a reactive curent. If you have a varying DC current, you will not have reactive current. For a start, if you applied the AC voltage with a DC offset, you would destroy every inductive element and appliance in the installation. A DC component in an inductive circuit is a definite NO.
I would like to actually see the technology working!!
I am also amused by the suggestion that a house draws 50KW with a power factor of 0.5, also the suggestion that an inductive load has a power factor of 0.5, as does an inductive and resistive load!!

Bottom line, I do not see any evidence of reality with this technology.

Best regards,

My friend approached me with this technology. He went to the ortronic factory in spain, and claims that the inventor showed a convincing demonstration. Essentially the unit was provided with metered current and an output meter running into a plywood board with incandescent lights and fluorescent tubes. The inventor started with only the incandescent lights on (not a reactive load). The input and output meters read the same. He then began switching the fluorescent tubes one at a time and each time he turned one on the output meter climbed by about 10%. it sounded crazy to me, like perpetual motion, but my friend (an electrical engineer) was dumbfounded and i trust him not to lie to me. he inspected all the connections to make sure that no hidden power input was being used and found no signs of anything like that. I'm considering purchasing the unit for my solar array, the claim has been made that it will reduce the amount of PV panels i need by 70%. the unit is expensive but cheaper than the panels. they have offered to install the unit, under the pretense that if it doesn't meet their claims they will remove it and charge me nothing, so i don't see what i have to lose unless its some sort of scam.

Distributors


"Their exclusive rights of sale are subject to a minimum three-monthly or six-monthly purchase volume, depending on the possibilities of the territory.

They have to make a minimum purchase at the start of their activity with Ortronic®."

"A new concept of the electrical energy"

Same old sales concept

Ken

Very strange thing we found here in Otronics. Theoretically, no one can use the reactive power by converting it into an active power. If any one claims that he did, it would be great “Invention” in the field of electrical engineering.

Your energy meter would tell you the true story when you would install the product.

They always do don't they?


There's a clue already; output CURRENT! I can show you any number of electronic boxes that make the CURRENT go down, but the utility does not bill anyone on CURRENT, only kWh! Funny how all these "inventors" seem to skip right past that little nagging detail in all of their demos.

Hi,


I would remember that there are meters for RMS values and meters for TrueRMS values.
When you measure a non-sinusoidal current (i.e. - the current in a fluorescent tube) with a RMS meter, you will have a wrong reading.
Selecting the desired type of meter, you could demonstrate to your eyes a current reduction also if true current is increased.
Input and output meters used for the demonstration could be different.

Bye
Mario

So clearly i am not an engineer, and as such do not use proper terminology. the use of the word current is mine, not from the inventor. got a quote from a distribution company out of Texas and i am in the process of getting one of these units. I'll post the results for my use, but as i said i am not an engineer, so if anyone knows of accurate ways i can quantify my results let me know. my plan considering im using a pv array is to measure the output from the panels and the output after the unit. i could also clearly see results because the array i have only makes up 37% of my usage, they are claiming that the device will take me completely off grid with no new panels. I'll let you know what happens.

Hi Starfish, what you need to do is measure the ENERGY. This is the only thing that really matters to you. It does not matter so much what the current is doing as it is the energy that you use to do work, i.e. produce light, heat, cooling etc. I dont know if you have a kWh meter on your array at this stage but that is what you will need to prove or disprove this matter. I would hope that if the distributor is willing to provide the unit at no cost then they will also want to quantify the results accuratly.

If you can leave your pv array as is, add this device to your installation and disconnect from the grid then I will be very interested in what they have to offer because either they are producing energy out of nothing or they have improved the efficiency of your pv array dramatically.

Just read any contract very carefully as the devil will be in the detail, ensure that you both are quite clear on the expected outcomes and that all measuring methods are agreed in advance. Other wise if they are offering a free trial then go for it and keep us informed.

Ken

You will have to forgive some of us for sounding sceptical but there are a never ending stream of miracle devices out there that make outlandish claims which are generally based on misleading the end customer.

At least this one http://www.geocities.com/hoaxindustries/index.html is honest about it

Starfish, you will not be disappointed in your decision to go with the ortronics package. We believe it works and will do what they say it will do. I, like you, am no engineer but I am affiliated with a group that will be coming out with a similar package in the near future. We have looked at Ortronics and believe it will do exactly what it claims. Of course, we believe ours will be better in some respects but for the time totally support and encourage the use of Ortronics technology. It will only make the ground more fertile when our package is fully developed and available. Our tests have consistently shown (measured with a watt meter) a 55% to 60% reduction in watts used by a single phase electric motor in an industrial application where it powers a recirculating pump running 24 hours/day. Otronics and my company are both looking into solar and wind powered packages. Don't be discouraged by the negativity of others. Ortronics will absolutely stand behind their product as will we when it comes to market. Congradulations on being the first on your block to make the step toward energy independence. There will be many to follow soon despite the naysayers.

Hello 77taco370

Welcome to the forum.

Most of the posters on this forum and this topic are very experienced engineers and based on the information provided, are not convinced of the viability of the technology.
This may be because of the "marketing" spin placed on the information that has made a viable product of concept look like snake oil. This certainly does happen a lot. I have experienced demonstrations and "certified" test results that just are not correct, but look very plausible to non engineers.
If you have a viable technology, please provide the information here and it will certainly get a fair analysis. If it is snake oil, then that will be exposed, but if it has merit, we are very ready to accept and acknowledge that.

The original description that I saw described applying a varying DC voltage to an AC load rather than an AC voltage. If that is what is being done, then any iron cored component will burn up. This is fact, not opinion. - So, either the description is not a true reflection of what is being done, or it is fictional.

Please describe a working system and we will all be interested.
NB there is no perpetual motion!!

Best regards,