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Power Saver


JHK

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Hi :D

I am new member here.

 

I want to make Q, how to make the Energy Saver equipment ( Pfc Saver ) with relay for 1 phase n 3 phases.

The reason is, I am staying in Indonesia (Development Country). A lot of Electrical equipments are made by second class materials, so the Pf low. if anyones know, pls post it. TQ :D

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Hello JHK

 

I assume that you are wishing to build power factor control equipment as opposed to and energy saver. (Note: power factor correction does not save energy for the consumer in most cases)

 

If this is the case, have a look at http://www.LMPhotonics.com/pwrfact.htm This gives you the technical background. If it is not clear how to apply power factor correction from this information, then you probably need to use the services of someone with the appropriate electrical training.

 

If you have specific questions, feel free to ask here.

 

Best regards,

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Hi marke,

 

I'd like you to check the products for me please.

I'm so lucky that I see your forum today before I become the victim.

At first, I want to be the distributor of Monster Energy Management products and PowerBoss.

 

I have read a lot of posts about soft starting. It is very useful to me.

Thank God .. I found you (IMP) haha ...

 

Monster Energy Management

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Hello neogin

 

You need to do your own tests to verify that the technology meets with your requirements.

Be very careful of demonstrated results, make sure that you have a good understanding of just what your customer is paying for, and that the devices actually reduce that.

Many sales people demonstrate a current reduction and claim an energy saving when it is the KW that must be reduced. It is possible to reduce current with out reducing KW due to changes in pf.

If you do not fully understand this concept, then do a lot of reading and gain a full understanding before you begin.

 

Best regards,

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Hello neogin

 

You need to do your own tests to verify that the technology meets with your requirements.

Be very careful of demonstrated results, make sure that you have a good understanding of just what your customer is paying for, and that the devices actually reduce that.

Many sales people demonstrate a current reduction and claim an energy saving when it is the KW that must be reduced. It is possible to reduce current with out reducing KW due to changes in pf.

If you do not fully understand this concept, then do a lot of reading and gain a full understanding before you begin.

 

Best regards,

 

Can you give me advice how to test the products exactly and more info that I should know?

 

I'm new and not in this field but I'm interested to do this business. I see the future of energy saving products. I read many of your posts. You have been giving me a lot of new knowledges.

 

So, how can I know that the KW that reduces will result in saving the energy or not?

 

Even the PowerBoss, I read from what you posted on this forum and I felt that it doesn't work. It is one of the products that I'm thinking to import PowerBoss to sell in my country.

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Hello neogin

 

Energy saving technology looks very attractive as a means of saving (and making) money, and there are a lot of techniques around that can be applied to save energy, but to be successful in this market, you must understand energy, how it is used, how it is wasted, how it is measured and how it can be controlled.

 

I do not believe that this is knowledge that can be given by a few posts on a forum.

 

There are a few points that I would make however:

  1. You can only save energy that is being wasted. That means that if your equipment is operating at a very high efficiency, you will not save much energy.
  2. A reduction in current is not an indication of a reduction in energy. A reduction in current can be achieved by improving the power factor.
  3. Energy is measured in KWHrs, not Amps. Use a KWHr meter to measure energy usage, it is what the customer pays on.
  4. Often energy wasted, is mechanical, not electrical and savings are made by slowing things down.
  5. There is no magic box that saves energy everywhere, there are technologies that work in some cases only.
  6. Reduced power consumption in a process may extend the length of a process and result in the same energy consumption.
  • Power factor correction does not reduce energy consumed by the customer, it will reduce a power factor penalty if one is being paid.
  • Reducing the voltage on lighting circuits will reduce the light output, reducing the number of bulbs/tubes will do the same. - less light, less energy.
  • Nola type energy savers on electric motors reduce iron losses on lightly loaded motors only and are only advantageous where the iron loss is very high.
  • Soft starters reduce the maximum start current, but do not reduce the maximum demand charge.
  • Switching things OFF when not in use is a good way to save energy.
If you truely want to succeed in this market, you need to fully understand energy consumption within an installation. That means that you need machine, lighting, and process knowledge as well as expertise in metering and tarriffs. You need to start by making a survey of the energy consumption in an installation and assess where the energy is wasted, and then concentrate on the areas of high wastage. There is no magic product that will save energy unless it is correctly applied.

 

Best regards,

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First of all, thank you so much for the above post.

Lately, I spent my time on reading about saving energy bills technology but it seems .....

None of the products out there can say 100% that really working.

Most of them is like a brain wash products.

Using weak emotion of human to plays around and laughing behind the scene.

 

It is just like a pill that put in your car to reduce the gas to gain more mileages.

I am totally agree with your idea that the best way is to save the energy is to turn off the machine.

Not to use them.

 

Do you remember the company that I wanted to be their distributor?

They sent me "How their things work?"

These are 2 of their products.

 

MAS and MLS

MAS is designed for air conditioners.

MLS is for lighting system.

 

What do you think about their statements?

 

I read about it but I want to hear the comments from you.

 

Thank you again Marke.

 

( 1 ) =====================================================

 

Most single-phase AC induction motors used in air conditioners operate at less than maximum load conditions, yet they draw "useless" excessive current no matter the load.In other words, an oversized motor will consume much more energy than it requires when operating at less than rated load conditions.This "excess or wasted" energy supplied to the motor results in increased energy costs and heat build up, which in turn raises the utility bill and shortens the motor's life.The MAS AconSaverapplies the latest micro-processor technology to optimize the power consumption of common induction motors.Monster Energy

 

How does MAS Series of AconSaver Work?

The MAS Series of AconSaverapplied latest 8-bit CMOS micro-processor as the core of the system. It has the intelligent to detect the current flowing through the air conditioners and monitoring the supply voltage simultaneously in order to optimize the power supply of air conditioners.

Most single-phase AC induction motors used in air conditioners operate at less than maximum load conditions, yet they draw "useless" excessive current no matter the load.In other words, an oversized motor will consume much more energy than it requires when operating atless than rated load conditions.This "excess or wasted" energy supplied to the motor results in increased energy costs and heat build up, which in turn raises the utility bill and shortens the motor's life.The MAS AconSaverapplies the latest micro-processor technology to optimize the power consumption of commoninduction motors.

The AconSaverprovides electrical energy to the motor proportional to the amount of work the motor must do, thereby reducing the unproductive energy. For those who haveexperiences with AC inverter (Variable Speed Drives) before, the working principle of MAS AconSaveris very similar to a AC inverter working in “variable torque” or so-called “square torque” mode. Those applications like fan and pump (HVAC) and compressors, they are variable torque applications. The AconSavercomes with an in-built power factor correction circuitry, which will improve the poor power factors of the air conditioners and increase the efficiency of it.

 

The result? There is less energy consumed and less heat build upin the motor, thereby reducing the cost to the consumer and extending the life of the motor.The only noticeable differences are the AconSavercontrolled motors run quieter, cooler and produce a smaller utility bill.

One AconSavercould be installed for more than one air conditioner provided the total current consumption of these air conditioners does not exceed the rated current of AconSaverand most importantly, all these air conditioners must be connected to the same power line if there is a 3-phase power system.

 

( 2 ) =====================================================

 

How does MLS Series of Lighting Saver Work?

The MLS Series of Lighting Saverapplied latest 8-bit CMOS micro-processor as the core of the system. It has the intelligent to detect the current flowing through the lighting loads and monitoring the supply voltage simultaneously in order to optimize the powersupply of the lighting loads.

When fluorescent lights or any other type of lights are turned on, nominal voltage supply is only required to enable the light to strike and subsequently, the operating voltage could be reduced. MLS Lighting Saverwill provide normal voltage when lights are turned on for a certain period of time and then it will enter “Savings Mode”, which starts to optimize the energy.

 

Over-Load

This “RED” color LED will turn on when the Lighting Saveris in over-load condition. The current sensor of Lighting Saveris full time monitoring the current flowing through the unit, when it senses that the current flowing through the MLS unit is higher than it’s rated current, the unit will return to it’s normal mode, which will increase the level of output voltage when the Lighting Saveris in “Savings Mode”.

From the active power equation, Power = Voltage * Current * power factor or

P = V * I * λ

For a stable system, P and λare constant, hence increased V will reduce I.

The Lighting Saverwill stay at full voltage mode and “Over Load” LED will stay onuntil the over-load condition is over. If the over-load condition getting worst, where huge current is being drawn from the mains supply, the external MCB should trip in order to protect the Lighting Saverand lights.

 

Over-Voltage

This “RED” color LED will turn on when the Lighting Saveris in over-voltage condition. The Lighting Saverwill enter “Savings Mode” instantaneously even without any loadcurrent being sensed. This is to protect the lighting loads from being damaged by too high supplyvoltage.

The level of trigger for over-voltage is 240V + 10%, which is approximately 264VAC.

The Over-Voltage alarm will be turned off automatically when the unit’s supply voltage is below the over-voltage trigger level.

 

Under Voltage

This “RED” color LED will turn on when the Lighting Saveris in under-voltage condition. The Lighting Saverwill never enter “Savings Mode” even with load current being sensed. This is to ensure that the lighting loads would have sufficient power to turn on.

The level of trigger for under-voltage is 240V -10%, which is approximately 216VAC.

The Under-Voltage alarm will be turned off automatically when the unit’s supply voltage is above the under-voltage trigger level.Monster

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A fantastic example of well written bull. The basis of what is written is true however the way that it is written leads the reader to draw incorrect conclusions.

 

This statement is pure rubbish

 

"The AconSaverprovides electrical energy to the motor proportional to the amount of work the motor must do, thereby reducing the unproductive energy. For those who haveexperiences with AC inverter (Variable Speed Drives) before, the working principle of MAS AconSaveris very similar to a AC inverter working in “variable torque” or so-called “square torque” mode. Those applications like fan and pump (HVAC) and compressors, they are variable torque applications. "

 

They are talking about the centrifugal pump and fan laws which firstly do not apply to the compressors found in single phase machines and secondly are only applicable if you change the speed of the device which this system does not appear to do.

 

I dont think you could sue for false representation but i would not touch this equipment with a very long pole.

 

These companies will talk about energy and current as if the two terms are interchangable. This is purely power factor correction equipment which is discussed at length elswhere on this site.

 

The lighting unit sounds similar to other units that reduce the voltage to flourescent lighting. This does work BUT there will be a light output reduction. With these products there is a need to correctly engineer the solution.

 

It worries me that these companies often engage non technically skilled people to sell their equipment. My advice is to look into studying energy efficiency, there are plenty of oportunities to make money in this industry by actually saving energy rather than selling snake oil. Most of my customers gain the biggest savings from changing the way things operate rather than the installation of new equipment. When I recommend new equipment it is based on sound engineering advice rather than trying to make a quick sale and then move on.

 

 

Good luck

An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing
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The oldest trick in the books for someone trying to sell you something you don't need, is to mix true statements with their exaggerations or falsehoods. They know that in your mind, you will understand and acknowledge the true statements, which puts you in a mode of associating all of the statements together and thereby believing the rest are true as well. Those two statements are textbook snake-oil in those regards.

 

(In case you don't know, "snake oil" is a reference, apparently unique to the US, referring to stuff sold by salesmen who roamed around in the 1800's that was supposed to be miracle cures for every kind of ailment. they would often claim they contained some rare medicine made from snake venom that could only be obtained in some far-off country, so they charged a lot of money. They were however mostly just alcohol and bitters, but by the time the farmers sobered up and realized they had been swindled, the "snake oil salesmen" were long gone.)

"He's not dead, he's just pinin' for the fjords!"
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Dear guys,

 

it is the first time i try to check some thing in a forum, and i've got a fantastic results!

i'm searching infos and refs about energy saving business opportunity offered by www.enigin.com , do you know anything about it?

i know that it is the same site structure as somar's, and the same director involved... is the "Consultancy" appealling valid?

could you please give your opinion again on someone like me that understands "pikzoulkinyes" about what you guys are talking about, trying to go into a "TRILLION DOLLARS" opportunity?

how about the Eniscope, nucleus, www.peoplemaps.com, etc... in their proposal. do they really have that expertise or it is just one more network marketing way of selling snake-oil?

should i expend $500 for a day trip to london to see what they're promissing?

anxious for yours A.S.A.P oppinion guys?

best rgds & nice wknd to you all!

and let's all of us don't forget to turn off all the lights when not needed, that's the best way to save it!

 

[

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hi, i've been looking for some technical info about power saver's.

I need some info about this enigin PLC, eniscope, nucleus, peoplemaps com business opportunity;

are these products really tested and saving energy as they say or is just one more company networking bull...snake-oil turbo system ?

Can I learn how to save up to 40% energy in 5 days of traynnig with these eniscope or any other kind of hardware and software? what is the real success chance? is this ethic?

unfortunatelly i could not access yet everything about what is around all of this, but when i,ve finished my first hour of reading, i am very confused, and even this forum looks very suspicious for me?

please send me as much as possible PROS & NEG'S. if you prefer you can email me at kyrinha at hotmail dot com.

thank you all,

 

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